Interview with professor Zhidong Hao | ‘There’s not a united front in terms of the democracy movement’

Refusing entry into Macau to Hong Kong activists or politicians might not be a new measure of local authorities. However, when two professors are dismissed because of their political activities or views, it means some of Macau’s freedoms are being threatened, University of Macau professor of sociology, Zhidong Hao, stressed. He believes Macau’s society will remain “fairly silent” and that social movement organizations need a strategy, as the city currently lacks a united front in terms of the democracy movement.

Macau Daily Times (MDT) – Several Hong Kong activists and a lawmaker were recently refused entry to Macau. It happened before but is the situation getting worse?
Zhidong Hao (ZH) – They were refused entry before; it’s not new. But it didn’t happen during the Portuguese administration; it was only after the handover. It’s not good. I wrote an article for the Financial Times, and talked about the one country, two systems [policy], and whether or not we are becoming a ‘one country with one system’ because economically it’s about one system. Politically, we have demonstrations and we enjoy freedom of speech to some extent. But now freedom of speech is threatened, especially when you have two professors who were dismissed because of their political activities and political views. That’s not good because it’s becoming one country with one system and Macau is losing its features. It seems it’s getting worse, because the two professors were fired… this has not happened before.

MDT – A new government has just taken office. Are they capable of dealing with Macau’s major issues?
ZH – I am not sure, because when you talk about problems in Macau, there are not really isolated problems: they’re all connected. So you can’t really expect one person to change everything unless the chief executive wants to change it. I think there will be some changes because the new government needs to do something to show that they are capable. How much can they do? Of that I am not so sure. Efforts and contributions from all areas are necessary, including the civil society, the chief executive, the central government and the officials themselves.
The central government is quite conservative and the chief executive has not changed, so I don’t think there will be a great difference. Civil society is fairly silent unless there’s discussion surrounding the retirement benefits for government officials, which is obviously problematic. I think society at large will keep silent and remain the same.

MDT – Why do you think Macau’s civil society was so eager to take to the streets over that bill in particular?
ZH – It was not just that legislation; it was an accumulated feeling that the government was there just to work in their own interests, rather than working for the people. Negative feelings erupted and there were big demonstrations. These situations will be exceptions. So in that sense I think people will continue to be mainly reserved, conservative.

MDT – Civil society will remain silent then?
ZH – Yes, fairly silent. There are some democracy advocates in the legislature but there isn’t much that they can do. There are also various social movements like Macau Conscience or New Macau Association, but these only involve a limited amount of people and I don’t think they have a big plan or strategy as to how they can achieve their goals. There are other groups like the Macau Gaming Industry Frontline Workers, but their focus is on economic issues. Political advocacy will not be very present until probably the next election cycle. In the next election cycle, there will surely be another surge of political activism.

MDT – If people do speak out, will they be mainly motivated by economic issues?
ZH – Regarding the economy, I don’t think there will be any serious problems. Even if gambling revenue is down, a lot of money is still being made.  The number of visitors has not decreased so there’s always people with money coming in. I think the government will be able to go along pretty well and keep people happy to a great extent, so I don’t think there’s going to be much agitation.

MDT – The government has been advocating for the diversification of the economy. Is this a good opportunity to achieve that goal, now that gaming revenue is declining?
ZH – It’s a matter of willingness, vision, and determination, and I am not sure whether they have it. Concerning casinos, they are doing something to diversify the industry by introducing sales and entertainment in order to mainly ensure that they keep their licenses. This has been done by companies like Sands China; they have retail and exhibitions… But SJM is not doing that much, it seems; I guess they will have to do something to keep their license, although of course they will continue to place gambling at the forefront of business, which is reasonable because they’re a gambling company.
On the part of the Macau government, they’ve been trying (…) There are things they can do but they might not have the vision. For example, do they have an idea of how much the gambling industry should diversify itself? Do they have an idea of how much they should diversify other sectors? For example, talking about retailers in Macau, how much tax do they collect from them? How much tax do they collect from real estate? While I’m not sure, we can think that if they collect more money from them, at least there would be an increase in the revenue from other economic sectors.

MDT – What should the new government address first, in your opinion?
ZH – Lawmaking, for instance. It’s lagging behind considerably in addressing the needs of contemporary Macau society. They haven’t done much there. For example, there’s the law on collective bargaining and the domestic violence bill, although the latter will soon be submitted. But what about laws governing real estate and house renting? Since the prices have gone up so high. (…) Housing is a big issue. They can keep building public housing but will it address social conditions? Even if people buy economic housing flats, they’re very small. Or if they’re willing to buy a more decent place can they afford it? If they can’t afford it, there’s this big gap between the rich and the poor. What kind of city do we have if most people can’t afford a decent apartment?

MDT – Citizens are now pondering living in Zhuhai or Hengqin. Is this a solution or a problem, given that it encourages people to live outside the city they work in?
ZH – It is a problem, because it’s an indication of the gap between the rich and the poor. Macau would become a tale of two cities: one city is of the rich and powerful and the other city is the poor people living in crowded housing, or other people having to move to Zhuhai to find a decent living. Both the middle and working classes are doing just that, so it’s a divided city.

MDT – Going back to politics, how could Macau have more young people engaging in politics?
ZH – Civil society organizations need to have a strategy. They need to have a constant presence. In the groups that competed for the Legislative Assembly elections, there were quite a number of young people, but once the election was over, we no longer heard from them. We only hear from two or three groups, including the New Macau Association or Macau Conscience. Agnes Lam group has generally remained silent, although we could argue that she’s part of the political structure already. José Pereira Coutinho, I don’t know whether he has a plan or whether he’s happy with what is doing now.
In terms of a democracy movement, I don’t see a united front. If you don’t have a united democracy movement, then very little will change.

MDT – The Occupy Central movement in neighboring Hong Kong pushed for a genuine universal suffrage. Will Macau follow in their footsteps?
ZH  – I said in my article that we hope that Hong Kong can succeed. Even within the current framework, there’s much they can do. But the democracy movement is not willing to make concessions and does not believe the government will make concessions either. So it’s unfortunate because if they don’t do it, we won’t do it. That’s one possibility. The other possibility is that the central government may view Hong Kong’s inaction as an opportunity for Macau to set an example. That would be good for Macau. Even if we just follow the current framework, it’s significant progress for Macau.